Brand Loyalty*
Posted by: admin in 3AF-R, General, tags: 5D, 645AFD, Brand, Canon, D3, D300, D700, H3D, Hasselblad, Loyalty, Mamiya, NikonA good friend of mine – Azhar Ariff aka AJ – has recently made a response to my query on his wishlist. I know many photographers out there (professionals) might have the same thought, but I think it’s worth quoting when it came from someone I know. I have read & sick about those reviews/responses/hate-note on ‘brand’ is the better, ‘brand’ ni cap ayam la… enough of these brand war, just buy something with your own money, share your products & sleep well damn it!
Our Fotopages comments correspondence are as below (Karof is my Sheffield nickname)
Dude,
As a professional – aku wonder cemana ko approach 2 different brand in upgrading your kit, now canon, later nikon D3, .. why not just move forward until 1D.. just curious, if you care to reply..
Thu 14-Aug-2008 16:28
Posted by:asraf sani asrafsani@yahoo.co.uk – [Link]
Karof, thanks for the note. It’s a good question you’ve got there. And this questions of brand loyalty has been lingering and boggling many photographers forced to pick a “side”. Professionally, camera gears to me are just merely a tool to create a photograph. Given credit, all makes of cameras, lenses and accessories, have their own strengths. It’s so happens that I’ve made this decision based on my needs. After using Canons for quite a while, I started to notice that the Canon lenses are not as sharp compared to Nikons (let’s just talk about these two makes, while leaving out Zeiss and Leica lenses). This is based on my personal experience during a commercial assignment photographing fine art. Given the exact circumstance of using both 50mm f1.8, and same exposure settings on a Canon 20D and a Nikon D200, the results were crushing my Canons. Granted that the D200 has higher pixels than the 20D, but I’ve also tested it against D70s which has a lower pixel count than the 20D, the winner is still Nikon in terms of shapness.
When I meant sharpness, I’m looking for fine detail in bringing out small textures, bumps on surfaces. So, for my commercial assignments, I NEED A NIKON (well actually I need a Hasselblad H3D, which I can rent from a studio if the client has a budget). This is because commercial assignments require the final images ready for other reproductions in various formats and dimensions, such as archival, magazines, posters and billboards. Therefore, since the H3D is out of reach, I’ll settle with a Nikon D3, or a D300 for that matter. Why not D700? Answer: Might as well a Nikon D3.
End of part 1
Why Canon?
Some images need softness, especially in weddings, and wedding portraits, where the shallowest depth of field will create the most soothing mood in the photographs. Canons sensors are also great in low light (until now the D300 and above has stepped out on the plate).
Plus I love the Canons focusing speed. I just point and it responds damn well to my commands. But, when I’m on commercial assignments, I gotta admit, I’m not satisfied.
End of part 2
Budget.
Now, since I’m photographing for money, finance factor also comes into factor. There are lots of other things to consider apart getting top gears. Therefore, my move is to keep my 20D and get a D300 (btw, the D300 to me is equivalent to a 1D mk X series, in terms of focusing points, ISO sensitivity, focusing speed, and frames per second, at HALF THE PRICE!).
End of part 3
Lenses.
Anybody can tell you that Nikon lenses from the old days till now can fit into any Nikon bodies. But not so on a Canon. The EF-S lenses cant be mounted on the 5D, 1D series, or 10D and below. And for a decent image, you’ll need to invest in a pricey “L” lens. Whereas a cheap Nikon lens can achieve a similar quality in terms of colour and sharpness.
End of part 4
Conclusion.
The ideal deal would be a mesh of Canon bodies with Nikon lenses.
I’ll probably follow my Darkroom teacher’s (Mustaffa) advice, which will be to get a Mamiya 645AFD+3 lenses+ a digital back (22megapixels). I guess by the time, I’ve got some cash to get the Mamiya, the used market for this baby has gone down to an affordable price. Fingers crossed.
So, there you go. That’s the reason. Hope it’s clear. Cheers mate!
Sun 17-Aug-2008 17:03
Posted by:Azhar Ariff azhar@fotomomo.com – [Link]
Since my dslr fever begins back in May’08, I’ve read loads of review, hate-comment, bias etc, never I come about anything as fair and as clear as your input above..
thanks a mil dude..
prior to your permission – I’m blogging your comment, also linking your fp..
Fri 22-Aug-2008 11:39
Posted by:asraf sani asrafsani@yahoo.co.uk
-
AJ’s wishlist - Fly & Nazri – korang dah ada benda2 ni..
My immediate wishlist:
1. Canon EF 28mm f1.8
Why this lens (it’s the closest to a 50mm lens after 1.6x crop factor, at the widest aperture. Long way to go for the f1.4 equivalent)
My mid term wishlist:
1. Nikon D300
2. 50mm f1.4
3. AC/DC studio light (2 units)
My long term wishlist:
1. Nikon D3
2. AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED
3. AF-D 80-200 f2.8
1. Nikon D300
2. 50mm f1.4
3. AC/DC studio light (2 units)
1. Nikon D3
2. AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED
3. AF-D 80-200 f2.8
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Asraf,susah juga aku nak tumpang comment ni..maklumla beginner..tapi,mana tau D3X kluar aku berminat then aku nak lego D3 aku…hehe..standby je la,mana tau aku offer ko harga runtuh..
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asrafsani Reply:
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
perkataan ‘runtuh’ tu aku suka, kalau betul nak tolak, aku pun stanby hihihi
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fly_ Reply:
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:17 am
kekeke kalo bli jgn lupe bg test drive..hehe but for some reason aku couldnt agree more sbb aku pun xpro kekeke tp betulla its up to individual needs sume brand design lain2 ade pro ade cons. if dh spent so yg penting kita enjoy!!! (ala2 gaya nora danish) hehe
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Nazri… ko boleh jer nak tumpang komen…. yang susah nak tumpang komen aku ni haaa…. dah terlajak pakai canon, takkan nak berundur…..
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asrafsani Reply:
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:41 am
post ni pasal canon & nikon.. & brand2 lain gak.. buleh je komen
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azral ramlay Reply:
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Aku tertarik pada statement ni supaya aku dpt gunakan apa tools yang aku dah ada… takut kang kalau tukar brand kang dah jadik lain kang especially dengan tight badjet….
“Why Canon?
Some images need softness, especially in weddings, and wedding portraits, where the shallowest depth of field will create the most soothing mood in the photographs. Canons sensors are also great in low light (until now the D300 and above has stepped out on the plate).
Plus I love the Canons focusing speed. I just point and it responds damn well to my commands. But, when I’m on commercial assignments, I gotta admit, I’m not satisfied.
dengan kata lain kita perlu tau kegunaan kita untuk apa… kalau kita ke arah comercial kind of use atau selain dari tu…
So basically kalau mcm aku punya keperluan skang jenis amik gamba event , perlukan focusing speed, USM …. cuma bila tang sharpness tu terpaksa buat sharpness pakai fotoshop jer la kekekeke….. takleh tanding la nikon nyer sharpness…
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Nazri Reply:
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
eh..bukan ko Nikonian ke Torot,D80 kan?Canon tu 2nd body kan..
Asraf,penangan Full Frame peh..Aku dengar D700 bunyi shutter kuranglebeh D3 je..hehe..agree with fly,yang penting enjoy eh..
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azral ramlay Reply:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:42 am
Aku ada satu body jer 450d…. hehehee nikon tu yang selalu aku pakai pun asraf ngan aliff la punya tu… eheheh
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Aku ada satu body jer 450d…. hehehee nikon tu yang selalu aku pakai pun asraf ngan aliff la punya tu… eheheh
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Geng,aku terpanggil nak bagi link ni…http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1967
Ala…biasa la,brand war..
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azral ramlay Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 12:24 am
satu lagi….. dalam dalam korang carik tu… ada tak artikel tentang positif side canon ni sebelum aku pon SWITCH?
kang kalau aku dah terbeli L series kang aku takleh toleh blakang kiri kanan lagi kang eheheh
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:52 am
L series tu best tu.. kalau dah terbeli, best apa..
usha Fly nye komen kat bawah, dia pun dream camera Canon 5D
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 9:47 am
ni bakar lagi ni
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halo2…aku nk bg opinion sket, aku sbnarnye nk ckp agree pun tak, xagree pun tak dgn statement kat atas tuh. bg aku xde byk issue sgt nikon/canon sbb sharpness, softness, dof etc sume dtg dr matching system used (body,lense,filter,lighting,phtotgrapher…and etc) and kaler etc bleh play dgr photoshop. & 90% Pro pakai canon sbb wider lense selection. & mostly guna prime lense. & kalo sensor & kaler jd problem knape tak pilih sony sbb nikon pun guna sensor sony? aku penah tgk gamba produced guna R1 lg better dari D3/1dsmk3 (lepas kene manipulate la) hehe
kesimpulan dari aku, kalo faham fundamental digital photography & digital darkroom sume nih xde problem sgt.
p/s: kalo aku blom ade camera and nk serious+ade budget aku amek canon 5DMK2 + L lenses
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:27 am
panas pulak topik ni..
aku forward input ni sbb interested how a professional can put brand loyalty ASIDE and concentrate on his needs, based on his personal & professional experience.. by ‘professioanal’ aku mean full-time money-making photographer
Aku, only, as a beginner & hobi je ni, X banyak nak spend for luxury toy, kompem jadi pilih bulu la ngan brand2 ni.. baca review sana sini..
bg aku.. kalau entry level kamera setakat ni, kau happy ngan D80 dah.. cuma kalau nak sembang full frame ala2 wallet tak muat duit dah ni, aku open to any make.. Canon full frame series & D3 mmg dah menjilat jari..
..
in the end, mmg up to masing2 punya needs & personal taste,
..
Fly,
Canon 5DMK2 + L lenses – ni baru memaksimakan tahap orgasm ko la yek..
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
ni buat aku sikit konfius jugak..
Fly,
ko suka L lenses ke suka 5D tu..
kalau 5D compare ngan D700 + lense2 ko tu tak sedap ke?
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fly_ Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
xcukup sedap, 5dmk? dgn bberapa lenses f2 & f1.2 dia mmg bleh memaksimakan tahap orgasm aku rasa ekeke….nafsu*nafsu* nasib dh nk puasa kurang hantu dlm badan heheh
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fly_ Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
lense kuda putih dia pon jgn lupa..ishkk nafsu* nafsu kekkeke
Wahlao wei Nazri, kalau harga runtuh D3 kau tu, aku pun nak gak. But, estimate aku by the time aku ada cukup duit, mungkin D3 harga dah turun 30%, so, good for me la.
He he…BTW, Karof, since ko kt Dublin/UK ni, why not test drive other cameras or LENSES by renting them over the weekend. Kat UK tak silap aku ada a few camera rental outlets. So, dapat la merasa camera mahal or other makes without paying the whole price. Example, mungkin ko boleh try rent medium format cameras such as Hasselblad H3D+digital back or a Mamiya 645AF-D with the digital back. If rental price is too high, why not pool some money wit some friends and rent them out for the weekend, and have a blast!
Personally, apart from the Hassels & Mamiyas & the usual Nikons & Canons, here are some digital cameras I’d like to try out: Epson RD-1 (because it looks and behaves like a film rangefinder, even with a winding crank!), Leica M8, Olympus E420+the 25mm f2.8 pancake lens (because it’s so small like the Oly OM-1n).
Lenses that I’d like to try out: Nikon/Canon tilt-shift lens, All canon lenses with f1.2 (simply because it’s f1.2! dang! Talk about the shallowest depth of field and the mood it creates), Not a big fan of very distant zoom lens so, I guess that’s about it. Not so hard to fulfill, I suppose.
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Oh ya, on another note about renting cameras and lenses: Before we all go out and bail ourselves for not trying, there’s absolutely no excuse not to rent FOR FUN just because “Woah…such high cameras/lenses…I’m not worth it”. Rubbish! No such thing. Unless it’s financial reason, that’s granted.
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:33 am
it’s always about the money dude – even for renting
Yes I would love to rent a dream gadget one day – but still renting price could easily be a new tripod or even a speedlight – which I still lacking..
..
hmm.. when I got a chance to be and have ample time in KL, I’ll definitely pay you a visit dude.. attend your class or something
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am
that was just my excuse bro..
just need to find a really good rental place – casual & helpful enough – it could be a possibility..
FYI, Dublin mmg crap bab2 retailing ni, we all buy stuff mostly from ebay, Fly beli semua kat Msia, shops are only for you to see the gadget in real life & if lucky, to try a few shots with shop assistant’s supervision..
I love to try one of those Canon full frame + L lense, they are quite a mystery to me at the moment..
..
but danger is, once tried, demam pulak nanti.. kalau dah demam susah nak ubat
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fly_ Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:59 am
hehehe, sembang2 camni la kenkadang bleh meracun diri sendiri.
neway opinion je..aku happy je dgn d70s, xterfikir nk try test tgk cuba canon nt kene virus demam susah nk baik hehehe
@fly_: betul2.. borak je boleh demam.. ko tu yg paling terer meracun sebenarnya.. kekeke..
LatihTubi 3.0 coming soon.. Ramadhan outing..
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peh,comments byk nya…dah macam forum la pulak.Hehe Asraf,bole..tapi tgk la harga D3x macamana.Kalau jejak 20K pengsan aku,then aku simpan jek la D3 tu…huhu..Kalau ko tanya aku,aku loyal je kat Nikon ni,tidak mungkin berpaling(macam lagu la pulok)…hehe..Eleh apa nak rent,ko pinjam je D3 aku..tapi pinjam berbayar la…hue hue hue hue…
BTW,korang usha2 la motel,budget hotel,rumah tumpangan,asrama etc murah2 kat sana.Aku dah nak confirm tiket aku ni..
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wey poning kaplo den ni haa…. adeh…..
jual semua pakai balik sony p150 aku leh tak?
member keliling dok sembang pasal nikon jer…
member yang pakai canon semua sembang pasal bende yang bukan pasal kamera….
kalau nak beli flash pon aku sorang jer yang nak beli aku rasa.. yang lain mcm tak minat jer nak beli dalam masa terdekat…. so aku kene la eksperimen sorang2…… hins hins…..
apa yang aku tau….. nikon dan canon takde beza yang ketara kalau level kita bukan level marketing/ high end nyer product.
Yang penting ialah composition dan jugak technic…. ini pon si fly gak ckp haritu…. so tak kesah brand apa la…. so yang penting niat di hati ehhehe
so aku pegang kata2 fly tu…. harap harap jiwa raga aku cukup kuat utk melawan nafsu kiri kanan yang mendatang…. maybe comment aku agak poyo hehe biasala bbeginner….
apa apa pun.. nanti sini ada festival of world culture ker apa tah.. tamau latih tubik ker? ehheheh ini leh jadik mcm Practical training ni kononnya kita ni mcm THE ONLY OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER FOR DUBLIN FESTIVAL OF WORLD CULTURE hehehehhehe
ada berani?
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asrafsani Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Flash – layan sorang pun takpa, nak wat cemana kalau geng Canon tak aktif, kita wat geng camera ni, yg penting produk, nak sembang gadget sampai ada cucu pun tak habih haa
Latih TubiK – berani weh berani
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azral ramlay Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
kata kata semangat ker ka apa tu? wkakakkaka
aku tgh cuba nak upkan semangat balik ni….. betul gak ckp cikgu azhar arif tu….
rasa mcm nak test drive la 16-35m L f2.8 tu tgk cemana dia punya penangan…..
hebat ker tak…..
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jgn torot jgn…..kekekeke neway festival tuh dah abis dh smalam..aku pi xdak ape pun..last2 amek gamba batu ekkekeke
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azral ramlay Reply:
August 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
la yer ker?
chettt
buang karan jer berangan
Jangan apa fly? jangan try ker? kalau try apa akibatnyer?
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jangan tak try ekekkeke kalo try bgtau la bleh rakan2 lain memandu uji or try time latih tubi 3
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Huhu…kalau nak/dah bukak bab flash ni, panjang ceritanya….memang stim layan flash photography, especially off-camera flash. Ape-apehal pun, refer kat David Hobby’s site kat Strobist.com to start meracun diri pasal off-camera flash. Kalau nak share flash cap Nikon/Canon/Oly/etc, korang beli radio flash trigger called “Cactus V2″ kat ebay. Korang check it out la kat internet, manatau ada geng flickr strobist Dublin buat meetup, boley join diorang, mmg syok punya. Aku pun dah gila kuasa pasal flash ni. Now tgh nak kumpul beli studio light AC/DC (boley battery powered:got battery pack and also mains powered). Alemak, dah racun diri sendiri….adeh…
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asrafsani Reply:
August 26th, 2008 at 11:40 am
har har har.. (gelak evil) ko pun ada demam/racun jugak,
so far belum ada member2 terdekat yg main flash seriously, so aku belum demam, tp sbb dah tengok strobist flickr pages yg teringin tu..
wiil check out David Hobby’s site later..
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